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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  June 18, 2015 2:00am-2:31am EDT

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>> police officers go into people's homes. >> jury neighbor wants to see the video. does your neighbor have a right to see what took place in your house? >> that's our show for today i'm ali velshi, thank you for joining us. reopened the debate about the right o carry guns on challenge campuses if someone nearby had been armed, the thing goes, lives might have been saved. texas has become the latest in a roster of states opening public college campuses to students and others legally packing heat. firearms on campus is
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tonight's "inside story". welcome to "inside story", i'm ray suarez. from time to time somebody brings a firearm to school. meaning to do people harm, and when it happens, especially after injuries and loss of life, those who support a more open and widespread carrying of firearms in society point out that more armed people would end such attacks sooner or prevent them happening always. at the other end of the argument, people horrified by a heavily armed society say more people opening fire would make such attacks more dangerous. looking at the country has a whole, there's 19 states where carrying guns on campus are banned. 23 states where individual colleges and universities are free to make their own policies,
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and ate states where carrying gunning on campus is allowed. of those, texas is the largest, with the largest state university system, and the largest student population. >> reporter: governor greg abbott signed the open carry and campus carry bills into law at reds indoor gun range in central texas. camp as carry allows licensed gun owners in texas to carry concealed handguns on colleges and campuses including inside doors and classroom. campus carry supporters pushed for this kind of legislation for years. because of the wide opposition because of top universities in texas, the law gives colleges the ability to create gun free zones on campus, and private entirely. >> it allows people to protect them. i'm not saying that everyone
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will be a superhero with a handgun, but gives you the opportunity to even the odds. >> reporter: at the university of houston, student attending rehabilitations. >> it's scary for me. you can miz use it. >> reporter: open carry allows gun hold torsers to carry an open handgun or a concealed handgun. some businesses can prohibit guns in their stores, by posting signs. open carry goes into first on 21 january. joining us is students for concealed weapons, a graduate student at the university of texas. in new york is colin, a senior policy advocate of every town for gun safety.
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he survived the 2006 virgin tech shooting that took 32 lives. welcome to the antonia antonia, why do you need a gun on campus? >> i think it comes down to the fact that it's self-defence, that we have the right to defend ourselves as college students on campus. as we see about campus sexual assault and being a woman, i'm a graduate student, and most of my classes are at night. i feel it's my right to protect myself, and having a whistle and, you know, at your head, and having a cell phone with 911 on the other hand is not enough to protect me from an attacker. >> would you be able to quickly obtain your handgun and have it ready to fire in order to defend yourself. is that something that is consistent with the nature of attacks in a place like a college campus.
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>> well, we can, you know, look at amanda collins story in 2006 and the university of nevada, she was a licensed holder. she did not bring her concealed handgun, and subsequently was attacked and brutally raped. so we know that if we - if she had had it in her backpack or purse with her on her person, that story would have been drastically different. or the other two women that were raped. the outcome of the stories, would it be different if more were armed. it's a question that we can answer with certainty. back to guns, situations like that, it's much more dangerous. >> fundamentally, this decision, whether we should force
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universities to carry guns in classrooms, dormitories, practically anywhere, should be left up to the people that live, work and study every day. pretty much all the cases where we see states trying to force universities to allow this policy. the students, faculty and law enforcement think it is a bad idea. fundamentally we are goingnot going to shoot out of problems on campus. there are better ways to act and prevent it happening, than giving students guns and having them shoot it out. >> when you hear antonio say she wants the right to do so. she will go to night classes, and wants the opportunity, if she wants to defend her life, to have the chance to do it. what is wrong with that. >> i don't think necessarily
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that having a gun is the only way to defend yourself. i think there's more options out there. fundamentally, having experienced someone coming into a classroom with a gun to shoot you, i didn't understand what was happening until i was shot. i didn't think in my case it would have made sense, i think it made it more difficult. i think when you think about the hypothetical situations, i can thing about options. we have to look at not just instances that happened on campuses that are rare. most students are off campus, not on. the ones that do. we are not thinking about the every other college day where there is no violence, but the presence of gun in the classroom dormitories, all the parties that happen in and around campuses make the days more dangerous. we look at the negative and the
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pi positive. this is a bad idea. if two or three people in your class have access to weapons, might he have been killed earlier? ultimately, he took his own life, but might he have been killed before killing more people on your campus. >> perhaps. perhaps he could have killed them first, or had access to more weapons. i thought about that situation happening a million different ways from the scenario you put forth, the scenario of me trying to do something. the scenario of me getting killed, there's no way to answer that question. what i have to go back to is what i experienced. what i did. we think about these in our own time, in a stress free environment, if someone would come down the door you would want to shoot it. it's different when it happens in front of you. ultimately, you know, we are not
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going to shoot our way out of problems, this is not the solution. there are many more things that can be done, in the days, weeks, months and advance. there are things we can do to make campuses safer, making sure people that guy guns are legal allowed to do so. doing background checks. certain situations that might happen at the last possible second. >> not in theory, but in real research practice, law enforcement practices, soldiers that open fire, trying to take someone out killing civilians, miss more often than they hit the tart. are you going to do better. do you support, at least, the training of people who go to college with a gun in the pocket or the back pack. >> i agree. i definitely support that.
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and concealed carry supports that. that is why part of the requirement is that you have to be 21 years of age and older, and you have a c.h.l. licence, and just about itself, it's a rigorous step in order to get your concealed carry licence in the future. you also have to get a federal background check and mental health background check at the same time. it's a thorough vetted process. the people that are obtaining the licences, and have the guns on campus, they are law-abiding, and best citizens. >> stay with us, most college students can vote, represent a car or take a drink. should they be allowed to return to campus with a gun and a back back. we continue with a look at firearms in the campus next on "inside story".
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story". i'm ray suarez, we are looking at the debates across the 50 states over laws allowing or prohibiting carrying firearms. the student affairs administrators in higher education released this statement:
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back now with antonio and colin. one of the key times in life for the onset of mental illness - are the late teen years when people are on college campuses. we saw that with the man who shot you. but in many other cases. is this an argument against a more liberal view towards firearms on campus? >> it's one part of the art at this statement in development, there's a lot of things going on, and a lot of stressful situations happening in the unique environment of college and university. most people, fortunately, in
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this country are understanding the arguments. we have seen 14 other states reject and defeat campus carry legislation, and the bill in texas, at the last minute, allows university presidents and college officials to decide where and how guns can be carry guns on campus. people understand that this is an important issue when people bring up the art about immaturity, when they point out older teens have developing brains, there are things that are different between young and older adults, that argument doesn't carry much water with you. tell me why not? >> the fact that college students are adults, and the
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fact that concealed carry is for people 21 years of age and older. studies have shown, and time and time again, that the brain, especially the part that deals with judgment, is more or less fully developed at that time by age 21. we are not dealing with 18, 19-year-olds, we are dealing with 21, 22, about to go young professionals out of college. but the fact of the matter is that college students that are recruited on to campus because we are the best and the brightest. it's interesting when it comes to self-defence, that the judgment has been questioned. >> are you open to having texas, be a laboratory for this approach. can we measure, observe or learn anything after the implementation of this law next
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fall, and what should we look for to see whether this approach works? >> well, i think it's fortunate that we are not a labyrinth guinea pig. utah, states that have concealed carry on campus have dealt with this, and have had good results with it. the facts and the studies show, and are on our side, can still carry. it's something that is beneficial if not anything, has a net neutral effect on campus. why should we deny the rights of students on campus to choose that way of defending itself. >> i'd like to follow up the point in a sense that we already know for a fact that a student at weather state university in utah shot himself while walking to campus.
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professor in idaho shot himself in class, and several offered panic alarming situations when guns are left out around libraries in parts of campus causing fear and panic. it's not like this is a clean check record. we have to understand that for universities to allow this policy, the same organizations that promote the idea, remove training requirements altogether, or not getting a permit in the first place. in texas, a few years ago, we saw a lawsuit to reduce the minimum age to get a permit. we have to understand the bigger picture where things are going, and understand that this is a dangerous idea, that really is promoted by people who sell fear and firearms, and try to force more places in our society allowing guns in the areas to be something normal, which the vast majority of americans do not agree with.
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>> quick response. >> i would rebuttal the fact that you said that it's from people who are trying to promote fear. which i feel that you are doing the same thing when you are using instances that are individual, and in this case that do not have to deal with concealed carry licensed owners, and this is what we are focussing on with students for concealed carry, that we want 21 years of age and older, those with c.h.l. licences, those with background checks to be the ones that have guns on campus, to be the ones that are going to be there, in situations where law enforcement has not arrived yet. >> antonio, the campus leader of students for concealed carry at the university of texas. colin is a senior policy advocate for the group every up to for gun safety. great to have you both with us. across the thousands of college
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campuses are tens of thousands of school employees, whose main job is to look out for the well being of students. what they make of the law and other measures on the way to the law across the country next. firearms on campus, it's tonight's "inside story".
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welcome back to "inside story". i'm ray suarez, we are focussing on the pros and cons of campus carry laws. the right to have a gun at college universities, joining me is ken kruger, president in higher education. good to have you with us. in states across the country where they are loosening
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restrictions on carrying guns, colleges, many, are pushing back saying okay, but not here. what is different about a college campus. >> i think college campuses are unique environment. your previous guest mentioned developmental years, the 18 to 22-year-old period where students are finding themselves and finding their own space and voice. the college campuses are intensifiesical environment. thing about the average residence. you have hundreds of student packed into a space. it's also a place where we really actively want students to engage in challenging dialogue. think about all that took place in the last year, post ferguson on college campuses. lots of pointed and challenging issues that colleges are dealing with. we don't think that's a place where we want to enter and bring students with firearms, or that kind of charged environment to the dense environment where
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students are living together in close proximity, that's one reason. there's a bunch of others. the college campus is different to almost any other environment in the country. >> you heard the guest from students for concealed carry say that this wouldn't be every kid that metriculated that is allowed to bring a gun on to campus. it's only people with conceal carry permits, that they don't give out in serial box tops or sell at the post office. it's a stuff barrier to cover. can you handle that? >> first thing is this is not about gun ownership, right. it's about where you may bring your gun and so we are not opposed to gun ownership. for those 21 and older, we are still opposed to bringing concealed or holstered guns on campus. one of the arguments that is raised is this idea that should
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there be an active shooter event on campus, that having an armed classroom might prevent it from becoming more dangerous. if you look and talk to law enforcement, the kind of training that law enforcement personnel on ledge campuses do, it is enormous. they are trained, retrained. they have to reprogramme the brain to respond to the high intensity adrenaline-driven environment to respond, to understand the complexity of the situation. there's no way that that student - they may have grown up with guns, they may be at the range every day, is prepared for that kind of environment. we believe that that increases the risk for every student, faculty and staff member when you have students potentially in an active shooter situation, or dangerous situation thinking they can resolve the situation. >> advocates of student
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concealed carry pointed out that repeatedly in the active shooter on campus situations, campus police be very thinly distributed and small in number forces who are trained, as you described, have had a terrible time turning back someone who really needs to do a lot of people harm. >> yes, i think we - as a society are struggling with the violence in our society, how we stop it. there's no evidence. in fact, all the scientific evidence suggests to the contrary, that the concealed carry environment increases the likely hood of violence. that the weapons effect of having people who are angry or not angry, that it intensifies the situation. there's no evidence that a concealed carry environment stops any kind of active shooter. there was a great piece that diane sawyer did on a.b.c. - i don't know if you saw it. they had a laboratory classroom
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where they had students with guns, they trained them, and they weren't expecting is to be an active situation, and they came in and watched the students. some had been trained, some grew up with guns, and how panicked and unable they were to deal with the intensity of the situation, because they lacked the training. >> we can argue this among the students for conceal carry, our position is that this does not help a violent active situation. if you add up the other negative consequences, it weighs against having guns on campus. >> like it or not, the laws are coming down the pipe. there were big turnovers, and they are turning out the laws. if your administrators, your members have to handle this, what will you be putting out for. in the case of implementation, what will you be arging for to
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with. >> you are the woman from f.c.c. argued and suggested that they advocated training and background. and argued it's not the case for everyone that can carry a gun on campus. we want storage capabilities, where do you put the gun when you sleep. when you sleep. >> storage, in a safe. >> clearly we have to make sure only students of age have the happen. >> kevin kruger is administrator at n.a.f.t.a., i'll be back in a minute with a time word on carrying guns on campus. stay with us.
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just because i'm away from my desk doesn't mean i'm not working. comcast business understands that. their wifi isn't just fast near the router. it's fast in the break room. fast in the conference room. fast in tom's office. fast in other tom's office. fast in the foyer [pronounced foy-yer] or is it foyer [pronounced foy-yay]? fast in the hallway. i feel like i've been here before. switch now and get the fastest wifi everywhere. comcast business. built for business. aspects of the debate over firearms on college campuses for me is the utter rejection by open and concealed carry advocates of any requirement of
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competence, training, demonstrated knowledge of the proper use of handgun in order bring one to school. on the one hand they point out that a heavily armed gunman on campus has potential opponents if and when he tries to shoot or terrify others. on the other can't the constitutional right to bear arms doesn't have exception, asterisks or qualifications. the second amend pt proposes a stirring idea about freedom, a modern handgun is not an ab instruction, it's a small object designed to be big lethal power. and when my kid heads to school, i would be encouraged if the good guys, ready to take aim at a nut with a gun were not clueless, with little skill of handling a lethal tool. wouldn't you. thanks for joining us for "inside story".
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see you next time. i'm ray from briny tidal pools comes sign that trouble in the air is dripping down into our food supply. >> who knows how far this issue goes. if it's affecting our oysters, what other oysters is it affecting? >> "america tonight's" lisa fletcher with the stories the shells tell. these migrant crises and the

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